Better out-of-the-usability

Thomas Singer (MoTJ) wrote:

I'm sure, it is not very trivial to create such a new application and

make it usable for part-time users like me. Nevertheless, I recommend to

concentrate on the possibility to enhance existing languages like

Java. Who writes a new language from the scratch without a very indepth

knowledge?

We have CollectionLanguage and ModelQueryLanguage that extends

BaseLanguage. (They are located under %MPS_HOME%/collectionLanguage and

%MPS_HOME%/modelQueryLanguage). With current build we bundled sources of

  our query methods (located under %MPS_HOME%/queries-src.zip) and now

you can look at then for examples of Queries(Aspects in previous builds)

methods. Of course it is not very usable now but we will provide more

documentation and more sample sources in next builds.

When do you plan to make MPS a standalone tool (without IDEA running

in the back-ground)? Is there some major road-map (I don't need dates)?

You can use MPS without IDEA right now, but it is much less usable than

without IDEA.

Collection/modelQuery languages are in progress and far form completeness (please, don't try to use them now) but the work yields reach experience on languages integration.

There is no enough explicit support for development of java extensions in MPS yet.

I would suggest to start from some simple language, perhaps configuration language (like in the "agreement" language). Say, "ant language" of "log4J language".

Igor.

Well, the problem is not that MPS currently does not support Java or XML

or whatever. From my perspective the problem is, that what it supports

is quite unusable, because the first-user barrier is much too high.

Why not first concentrate on one particular (hopefully useful) usecase

and extend it step by step? Although I'm no language expert, I'm

absolutely sure that changing a language better teaches MPS' power than

starting with a new language.

Tom

Thomas Singer (MoTJ) wrote:

Well, the problem is not that MPS currently does not support Java or XML

or whatever. From my perspective the problem is, that what it supports

is quite unusable, because the first-user barrier is much too high.

Totaly agree: much too high. I don't really see how MPS will bring the

'promissed revolution' if it remains so complicated.

Ahmed.

I'm totally agree too, but we don't have enough usecases to decide what usabilities needed and what are priorities.

Igor.

So first choose one small that helps you and maybe us (e.g. some kind of

xml-xsl-editor/converter). At least you need to be able to use it to

solve some real-world problems.

Tom

yes, that make sense.

Does somebody out there have more concrete "small&reallife" required?

Igor

So first choose one small that helps you and maybe us (e.g. some kind of

xml-xsl-editor/converter). At least you need to be able to use it to

solve some real-world problems.

Exactly: an example for some real world problems. Not those abstract

math languages :).

Ahmed.

I am trying to use MPS to create definition & editor for existing simple data structure & RPC interface definition language. It's private to my company, so I can't show you, but basically you can define structs and sub-structs with their own properties and optional default values. Each property itself can be required or optional. There's no code involved.

I thought I would try MPS with this example but even such a simple language appears too difficult. Maybe it would be a good subject of an MPS introductory article.